What Is Emotional Intelligence, and Why Should Leaders Care? Season 6 Ep. 1

We kick off season six by returning to the core: emotional intelligence as the real driver of performance, trust, and culture. We map the four domains, share leader data that surprised us, and offer reflection prompts to turn insight into action.

• Season focus on emotional intelligence as a leadership performance skill
• Format shift to mini episodes with research-backed takeaways
• Why culture and relational skill outpace technical expertise
• The four domains of EQ and the leadership compass
• Trust building and using conflict to strengthen relationships
• Data from 200+ leaders: start with managing self
• Practical check-ins for busy cycles and stress management
• Teaser for leading in high stress moments next week

Use code EI20 for 20% off our Emotionally Intelligent Leader online course

Chapters

• 2:10 Season Six Theme: Emotional Intelligence
• 4:03 Format Shift: Mini Episodes, No Guests
• 5:30 Why EQ Matters Now
• 9:41 Goleman’s Quote And Culture
• 13:29 Hiring, Fit, And Relational Skills
• 17:44 Reflection Prompt: What EQ Means To You
• 19:50 The Four Domains Of EQ Explained
• 25:20 Trust, Conflict, And Performance
• 28:04 Data: EQ Beats IQ And Reduces Burnout
• 30:39 Reflection: Emotions In Conflict

Transcript

Johanna: 1:05

Welcome, listeners, back to Tackle Tuesday Podcast. Welcome to season six. So, what are we going to be doing this season? Our theme is emotional intelligence, which is kind of funny that we didn't start Tackle Tuesday with emotional intelligence because really that is the foundation of Cinogap Solutions. And what launched the business was the work that came from my PhD research. But better late than never, I guess, right? So here we are. So what we're going to be focusing on specifically is what is emotional intelligence, why it matters, and how it can transform the way you lead. I think more and more people know what emotional intelligence or EI is. But every time that we introduce this concept to the participants in our programs, many of them still feel like they're very novice level familiarity, I guess, when it comes to emotional intelligence. So there's definitely some value to focus on it now. So, okay, what is the format? So last season, uh season five, where we focused on women in leadership, we did invite various guests to come and join us. But for this season, we're kind of going back to the way that it was, where it's just Katie and I, just the two of us, no guests, just honest conversations about the tools and ideas we use with leaders every day. So with that, I should say for our new listeners, we may have some new folks that have never listened to an episode. My name is Joanna Pogonis, and I'm joined here by Katie Allen, who is my co-host. We both work at Cindogap Solutions. I am the founder and CEO of that company, and Katie is the chief operating officer. And Katie and I have been recording this podcast since season three together. And season one and two, I launched it on my own back in 2020. So this is really exciting to be in 2025, recording our sixth season. So we're really excited about this sixth season. Now, this sixth season also looks a little different. It's gonna be mini episodes that are easy to digest and pack a punch in terms of opportunities for reflection, tangible takeaways, and research-backed insights. Um, and so um, yeah, that's a little bit about our season. So I'm gonna switch it over to my co-host Katie. Hi, Katie. Perfect.

Katie: 3:20

Hi, Joanna, and hello everyone. This is Katie, Joanna's co-host, excited for season six. And yes, we're attempting mini episodes, but I have to chuckle a bit. Sometimes we get really fired up and sometimes we have a lot to say, and we can both enjoy weaving a nice tale. So uh we will see. This is the first episode in this season, but I think we've got a good game plan here, just to, like you said, bring it back to basics. Emotional intelligence is such a foundation of what we do. So I think it'll be fun to share some stories, share some insights. And I've tried to do as much as I can to pull in actual data or insights from participants who've taken our emotional intelligent leader online course. So we're hoping to share some of that so we can yeah, talk about that through the season. Okay, so I'll kick us off. So today, yeah, we're easing into emotional intelligence. Like you mentioned, I think a lot of people are familiar with the concept, but like, how do you become more emotionally intelligent or really what are the components? So we'll dive into that today. And I thought I'd kick it off with a quote from Daniel Goldman. So he's a psychologist, he's written a lot about emotional intelligence. Joanna, you'll talk about him as it relates to your PhD research a bit later. But there's uh a quote, uh, and it's this the rules for work are changing. We're being judged by a new yardstick, not just how smart we are or by our training and expertise, but also by how well we handle ourselves and each other. And this quote is almost 30 years old, but it still feels very relevant. So to us, I mean, success isn't just about technical expertise. It really is relationships, relational skills, ability to connect with others, and not just for formal managers. We always talk about informal leaders and how they shape culture in terms of how they show up emotionally as well. So I just thought this was an interesting way to start. I'm curious to share one the quote, but hear your thoughts, uh Joanne. I'm wondering what you think of this quote today, recognizing it's a 30-year-old quote. Any any reactions to hearing it today?

Johanna: 5:16

It's very true. Nice to know that it came out 30 years ago. I think maybe it packs more of a punch now in terms of its um people buying into it. I'm seeing more and more, especially in the news around toxic workplace cultures and how it's just opening up companies to major liabilities. Like uh most recently in the news several months ago, there was a tragic accident between a military helicopter and a personal, uh not a personal, but a um a passenger plane.

Katie: 5:47

Oh, right, yeah.

Johanna: 5:48

Yeah, and um how the helicopter crashed into the passenger plane. It was nighttime. There was um obviously there were some protocols that were in place that created the circumstances of this accident happening and what they discovered through the investigation that was completely preventable. And one of the things that they discovered was the toxic workplace culture that silenced people from speaking up to say, if we don't address this, lives are at risk. Basically, people knew that there had been well many near misses, and it was almost a miracle that that tragic accident hadn't happened, and so they brought it to people's attention, and the people that did were either threatened to be fired or were fired. So, you know, I do think it's not about your expertise and your training solely, it is about how we handle ourselves, how we connect with other people, how we create spaces for people to speak up. Um, and that is grounded in emotional intelligence. And I was just listening to uh sample of different audiobooks and Patrick Lancioni's. I'm trying to do more in terms of what he's reading and and writing about, uh, what he's writing about, I should say. And one of the one of his latest, well, I don't think it's it's a new book, but um I'm gonna be reading it a little bit more. It really does focus on the the healthy culture part of a successful business, not just the strategies, which are important, but there seems to be an over-reliance with some companies around the strategy and less about the culture and how people treat each other. So to me, that just goes right back to emotional intelligence. So I see it more in the news now in terms of people saying, hey, we got to do something different. But you know, this is tried, tested, and true. So I'm happy that we're talking about it because I still think there's so much relevance and it's still new to many folks.

Katie: 7:40

Mm-hmm. Well, that's interesting that you took it that way when you heard that. I totally agree with you, the piece around culture. When I first read it, I was thinking back to also like how we determine fit or how we even like hire or support people or what we see as like good leadership or good management. Um, and I even thought like way back early on when I in university did an internship. And I remember I was trying to get a psychology internship. And when I was interviewing, I ended up getting one with a law firm. It was kind of an unusual placement. But the lawyer was so focused on GPA. And so, initial round of hiring, I didn't get the position because my GPA wasn't high enough. Long story short, someone was hired, it wasn't a good fit. She put in a good word for me. I used to volunteer with her, so I land myself in the role. And he, right when I started, goes, like, you didn't, you weren't a very good application. You weren't very strong. You didn't have like the technical or the academic strength that other applicants did. Yet at that time I had so much volunteer experience and crisis support and a lot of the emotional uh aspects of why he was hiring an intern was to support clients who had been sexually and physically abused, which I at that point had a lot of that ability, right? To connect with others, to hold space, to kind of like manage emotion and regulate space. And that's what he needed, but yet he was very focused on like GPA and very like technical, very like this is the box of things that you need. So I just thought of that, interestingly enough, when I was reflecting on that quote and all the other kind of situations that we see people in terms of hiring and fit, and like what are we missing out on if we're focused on maybe not the relational aspects. So interesting. We both kind of took it a bit of a different way with our thoughts on that quote. Very connected. Yeah, oh yeah.

Johanna: 9:17

Yeah, because obviously this lawyer, like if you the way he runs his organization is probably very focused on the metrics. Yes. Right? If he likes numbers, yes, then he's looking at profit. He's looking at, you know, uh uh metrics, like um, like all the numbers. Really, it's the numbers that we're looking at, not necessarily how people are feeling and doing about the workplace.

Katie: 9:38

Yeah, which was interesting because again, he identified a need that he he could not handle the people part of the job. So he needed an intern to do it, yet was still applying that kind of lens of like, you know, a very sort of like rigid way that that might look. So it all kind of worked out in the end. It was a very challenging experience, but like I learned a lot and thankfully I got to get in there. I think I was able to support a lot of people, but I hadn't thought of that in a while, but it popped up as I was reflecting on this.

Johanna: 10:00

When you say it was challenging, I my assumption is he was challenging to work with for. Yeah. Yeah. Because he lacked emotional intelligence, because he was so focused on numbers. Absolutely. You know, Katie, we have a team meeting today, right? Yeah. And I was as I was listening to the sample audiobook of Patrick Lancioni's up, which is called I called it Forbsessions of an Extraordinary Executive. Okay. It's a three-hour audiobook. It's a fable, it's meant to be read in, like, I guess, one sitting. So I think I'm gonna listen to it. But it's a quickie for sure. I was like, you know what? When was the last time we we did a health check for our team just to see how people are doing? And maybe we need to kick off with uh an exercise like that, like just a quick emotional check-in. Like we usually teach leaders the mood meter. Yeah. Mood meter is all about understanding what mood you're in because that will impact how you show up and connect with people. So yeah. Yeah. What'd you say? We how did you put it? Uh sometimes we go off on these. Oh, yeah, I don't know, just we like to talk a lot. You said what did I say though? What a nice little expression. I'm like, well said.

Katie: 11:14

I can't remember. Uh okay, well, that's a good little start. And yes, I'm excited. Our team hasn't met in a while. It's been summer, busy, people away. So, yes, I think to check in kind of on the emotional, how are we doing fits nice with what we're talking about, and it's always a good way to sort of see where we're at. So, yeah, so I thought that was a fun way to start. And hopefully, listeners, you were able to reflect a bit on that quote and what that means to you. Uh, I'll turn it to Joanna for the next section, uh, which is a reflection and then a little bit more on emotional intelligence. Uh, so take it away.

Johanna: 11:44

Okay, so here's our first reflection, folks. So if you're new to this format, just know that we embed self-reflection questions in every episode because that gives you an opportunity to connect better with the concepts that we're talking about. So here's our first one. When you hear emotional intelligence, what comes to mind? Do you picture soft skills like being nice or something deeper? But we see it as a leadership superpower, especially when it comes to recognizing your own emotions and the emotions driving your team. Okay, so what is emotional intelligence? Let's dive deeper into that. Okay, so for my own research, so my PhD really looked at how to support managerial learning and development, not just through training, but through everyday work. And I wasn't looking for emotional intelligence. That wasn't the main focus of my research study. I just wanted to understand how managers learn to do what they do and what supports we can put in place in the workplace to better support their learning and confidence. And what came out in terms of what the participants were sharing with me, and I shared this story, how I feel like it was it was quite the epiphany when I was coding all of the data and looking at what the themes and the trends were. Really, what they were saying to me was the power of emotional intelligence. So being emotionally intelligent was what I ended up defining as leadership competencies that anyone of any rank, any position, any title can possess. So they talked about four specific things: the ability to be self-aware. So recognizing your emotions, their impact. Part of self-awareness is also knowing what your strengths and limitations are, being humble enough to admit that and seeking information or support to build on those weaknesses and turn them into strengths. It's also about knowing what your values are, very clear on what your values are and how those guide your behaviors and your decision making and what your purpose is, why you do what you do, why you get up every day. At Central Gap Solutions, we call that your leadership compass, right? Your anchor is your purpose. It grounds you, especially during high stress times, right? Kind of like digging your feet into the ground, saying, let's take a moment and be mindful. Why am I here? Why am I doing this? And then your values, we call your lighthouse, which guide you to achieve a successful outcome. And the outcome to us is the shore, the destination you're trying to get to. So the purpose, which is the anchor and the lighthouse, which are your values, is your leadership compass, which really makes up that first domain of self-awareness. What we discover is that a lot of leaders or individuals don't spend enough time developing self-awareness. And if you don't have that strong foundation, it really is hard to develop any kind of competence in the remaining three domains. So the second domain is self-management. Uh, this is self-regulation, which is about your emotions, how you act when you're under pressure. It's also about goal setting. Can you set a goal and actively pursue it and not be deterred from trying to achieve your goals during difficult times or failures or mistakes? So that's a critical component of self-management, but also being resilient and having hope for the future and a sense of optimism in spite of challenges is part of self-management. So those four first two domains are all about you, right? And understanding yourself. The other two domains are all about your ability to understand and connect with other human beings. So the third domain is social awareness, which is at the heart of social awareness. So think of social awareness as self-awareness for other people, right? So you are aware of what other people need, how other people are feeling, what other people's strengths are, what their areas of growth are, and you can better support them through that, which means you have to have empathy for them. So you can suspend your judgment, your own beliefs to a certain extent, your own values to better understand where someone else is coming from. And you're also able to support people in aligning their values with the values of the work of the maybe the company that they work with. Relationship management is the last domain, which is all about can you build trust with other people? How good are you? And think about that. How effective or are you at building trusting relationships with other people? What is required from you to be able to build trust with other people? How do you go about doing that? And a critical component of that is then how do you work through conflict? Because it's hard to build trust with people if you can't get through conflict. And some people would argue that working through conflict can actually lead to better, more open, trusting relationships. So one of the things that we've discovered through our research is that emotional intelligence outpaces IQ and technical skill as a predictor of leadership effectiveness. So that's the other thing that came out. The more emotionally intelligent you are, the more agile you are, the better able you are to learn, and the more equipped you are at solving issues and problems that occur day-to-day in the workplace because you have a strong support system around you that can support you. If you're not emotionally intelligent, it'll be very hard for you to build those relationships with other people. And therefore, you'll probably feel more isolated and have a difficult time navigating through the challenges that work presents. Gallup has also shown us that leaders with a high EQ, so EQ stands also for, and I should maybe I not everyone's maybe familiar with the term, but EQ is emotional quotient, whereas IQ is intelligence quotient, right? So that's a difference. So leaders with high EQ reduce team burnout risk by 35%. Because guess what? Because they're empathetic, because they're tuned into other people and they make space for other people, they know to strain early and intervene quickly to adjust so people don't burn out and leave the organization. So here's the takeaway EQ or IEI, emotional intelligence, isn't a soft skill. It's a performance skill that directly shapes well-being and results. So I would say strategy is great. It is important, achieving results, critical. But if you're over-relying on that and not making enough time and space to work on yourself and to build relationships with other people, you will be hard pressed to achieve those goals and those results.

Katie: 18:22

Awesome. Thanks for that, Joanna. That was a really good, uh, kind of nice and concise overview of emotional intelligence. And I think such an important reminder, perhaps, for some of us on what those domains are. And I love hearing how you tie it into some of your research and the things that we see in the work that we do. So hopefully that gave people again a little reminder, a little refresher, a bit of insight on what this is and get you to start to consider maybe where you may struggle more in some of those domains. And the next segment here is uh a set of reflection questions. So now that we've introduced the topic a bit more, we want to help you reflect on it. So I'll share a few, and then perhaps Joanna, you or I can share a thought we have in response to one of these questions, and then we'll we'll move to wrap us up already here. So the question I have here, think back to your last workplace conflict, uh, or maybe just conflict generally, uh perhaps even outside of the workplace. Think of a recent conflict that you were involved in. Did you recognize the emotions driving your response? Think of how emotions played into that. Emotions are data, so what did you notice? Next, recall a time when someone truly understood your feelings. How did that change the outcome? And consider this within conflict or maybe a tense moment. How someone understood your feelings and how did that change the outcome? So, a few questions here, just positioning this idea of emotional intelligence in a tricky or challenging conflict uh situation can help us to actually make meaning for ourselves around some of these concepts. So curious, Jennifer, for you, when you think of conflict and maybe where someone understood your feelings or even what you noticed about your own emotions, what comes to mind for you?

Johanna: 20:06

You go first. Okay. There's so many. I mean trying to narrow down like the best one from like really difficult, complex, high conflict interactions to leave even some of the simpler ones that are also high impact and high value for me.

Katie: 20:23

Yeah. I mean, I can think of like two things come to mind immediately. Um, so maybe I'll share those briefly and see what you think. I mean, I'm thinking even small things, Joanna, you and I've more recently had like light disagreements on. And it's often not about the very thing that we're initially disagreeing about. So whether it's like, I don't even like the website, something little came up on like we were gonna make changes. And then you could, I think we know each other very well and we get along very well, but we can tell when we've maybe like poked. So I think I realized that early on. And so I think then stepping back and having empathy for like, wait a minute, also when I step back and look at some of the company for you. It's you, it's your baby. You have done so many impressive things early on on your own. And so the website's like an extension of you. And so, yeah, me coming in with this idea or that, I'm sure brought up feelings that on the surface, like I didn't even think about, right? It was just a very like kind of objective thing uh that I thought we were maybe talking about. But below that, there's feelings that come up. So I don't want to like uh make assumptions on exactly what you were going through, but that for some reason is what first came to mind that there was probably more under the surface uh in terms of feelings for you. And then my maybe like, okay, but we're we were supposed to meet about something else, we have this and that, it kind of pushed us. So my own feelings of maybe like impatience, just not at you, but like the afternoon at hand and what was on the to-do list probably did not help. So I'm just thinking about, and that's such a simple interaction with two people who like get each other, and I think we're both pretty emotionally intelligent, but can kind of like miss each other and then probably made that a little gunkier for us to work through. It was not a big deal. I think we worked through it, but what do you think? Can you remember that? That wasn't that long. Oh god, I definitely do.

Johanna: 22:09

Yeah, because I mean the website, yeah, it is one way to look at it, it's like an extension of me because uh the whole website was a big thing when I started the company. Yeah, it was I spent so many hours on the first version of it and ended up changing it. But I remember the the angst and the anxiety that came with deciding to go to a new website, yeah, and I had to go through this whole exercise of fear planning, like what's the worst case if I do this or don't do that? And and and now we got finally the website to a place where I really like it. But anytime that you recommend making changes to the website, I get very emotional about like what? Oh my god, no, please. My baby. I just got it, but you don't like it, it's not good. And so when I make changes to it, I feel like, well, oh, I just saw something on another website. So I just go in and want to. That's my anxiety about needing to do something quick so we always stay ahead of the game and always look like the most professional, the best company, because I don't want to look like we're falling behind when somebody else has something better on their website. So I'm like, I'll just take I'll take the initiative and do it without realizing I'm not a solopreneur anymore. And my team should be able to have input into what the company's external facing, you know, appearance is and messaging is. And so I need to take a step back and be like, what is the worst case scenario if you don't make the change immediately? What's the worst case scenario if you put on the agenda and say, hey, I have I saw this? So we had a good discussion about how to make changes going forward. And hopefully I don't forget that. But you're right, it was something deeper for me, right? And so we can be so focused on the task, but realize if we really wanted to better understand someone else, then we have to be empathetic because they may not necessarily be self-aware of why they're doing what they're doing. I think that's what we tell our the leaders that we teach is like you see behavior from an employee or a direct report, and you go to make assumptions immediately as to why they act like that. But did you ever think that maybe they even lack the self-awareness is why they're doing it? Maybe they've there is a trigger and the behavior associated with the trigger is something that they're doing to reduce the stress within them. So maybe help them and work with them to better understand that and be empathetic and patient. So you you did that for me. So I think that's important too. Because when I get anxious, I I also lose patience and want to act fast. And that's a way to try to deal with the anxiety. Uh that's a good insight. Yeah. Yeah. I can relate to that. And and I think for me, the example that I have uh is also a simple one with you. It's like, you know, I come back from vacation the first day, it's nice and easy. The second day I get slammed with like a whole bunch of things to do, and right away I'm like, let's go into business. I'm overwhelmed. I got and and and you're you're able to take a step back. Okay, well, what can we shift? What can we move to just help me just de-stress, take a breath, be more mindful, and then regroup, you know. So I'm um for me, my own self-awareness, and um, I realize that I need to take a breath. I I need to work on my self-management. That is something I'm constantly working on. Like I'm reading a whole book called The Anxious Achiever. So I went on a walk this morning and was listening to it. Anytime I feel anxious about the future, I listened to a chapter in that book.

Katie: 25:21

Oh, that's good. Oh, you'll have to keep sharing what you're hearing in that. That's interesting.

Johanna: 25:25

So that that for me is important because that could lead to conflict. Because if I'm feeling a certain amount of anxiety, and she says this in the book, we micromanage, we act really quick, and we can push people aside to deal with our own anxiety, but it's detrimental to our overall success and the success of the people we work with. So we have to be aware of what those triggers are and the behaviors associated with them because it can lead to unnecessary conflict.

Katie: 25:49

Yeah. Oh, that's such a good insight. And I think it's kind of, yeah, it's good. This podcast is giving us space to debrief things and work through our own stuff. Anyway, fantastic. But even for me, I think just reflecting on this specific scenario, like the self-awareness, too, of knowing, like, yeah, me get being impatient to like get back to the to-do list or whatever is also adding an energy to that discussion or like tense conversation that's not helpful. So, and sometimes I can like feel myself doing that, but I'm not always self-managing either, to be like, well, me in that space is not helpful to really like get to what's underneath the surface for you, because I'm like adding a weird energy. So I think the self-awareness and self-management and recognizing that yes, we can both be very good at that in certain situations, but of like we're all human, it's really hard sometimes, especially when it is something unexpected or a bit caught off guard, or it's like a very deep thing for us, right? I think in this example. So, anyways, I think, yeah, the self-awareness and management of how I'm showing up sometimes, recognizing everything you just shared of some of the anxiety and what that's causing, and how do I help that?

Johanna: 26:49

That you know, I have an awareness, and I think this is a good like tip for people who are listening and for us as well. I think every business has their busy cycles.

Katie: 26:58

Yeah.

Johanna: 26:58

And when they're about to get into a busy cycle, um, I think there's definitely value in pausing and saying, not just looking at the to-do list and the tasks, but how do we manage the emotions associated to the upcoming busy cycle and the unknowns and pivots that may have to occur throughout that can add a lot of stress to us. So what is it that we need to do to check in? Because I know you have this great um process that you're we're implementing now that anytime we start a new program with a client, we look at what the outcomes are. You know, we do a midterm check-in, but maybe part of that process could be just kind of like our emotional kind of responses to that's a great idea.

Katie: 27:41

Yeah.

Johanna: 27:41

So, like, yeah, we have a busy period that's coming up. So, how do we manage that? Yeah.

Katie: 27:45

Well, and even our team meeting this afternoon, yeah. How are we doing in the moment? But recognizing we all have a busy fall coming up, like what do we need to do? How do we keep checking in? We've done things to learn from the team with our user manuals. I think maybe we've talked about on the podcast before, but understanding like how are we all in stress uh and in busy times? Um, so maybe returning to that and just putting it ahead of us as we we get really busy. So yeah. Okay. Great. Well, I will turn it to you. Good reflection to sort of move us to the end with our new segment.

Johanna: 28:15

Yeah, I love this new segment. Yeah. So this season we're adding something new to the podcast, as Katie mentioned earlier. At the end of each episode, we'll share quick insight straight from the leaders who have taken our emotionally intelligent leader course. And we're calling it from the course because it's not just theory or research, it's what leaders are discovering about themselves when they actually practice these skills, which is really encouraging for us to hear as feedback after people have taken our programs. So here's what we want to share today. So, okay, crop across more, oh, one of the things we should share is we do what's called a high impact evaluation, where we collect data along the way of a learning journey for from our uh from our participants to see how they're doing. How are how are they learning the new objectives or concepts that we're teaching? How are they applying it and the impact it's having on their team, right? On the outcome or the workplace environment. Um, sorry, the company outcomes or the workplace environment. So across more than 200 leaders who took the EQ self-assessment that's embedded in our online course, one of the things that they said is the number one growth area wasn't managing others, it was managing themselves. And I think a lot of leaders who start the program, their first thing is like, how do I inspire and motivate other people? How do I get people to perform? And this is really powerful. Focus first on you before you focus on them. Because no one's gonna follow you, no one's gonna listen to you if you you don't have have it together, basically, if you lack self-awareness, if you have you don't have a strong leadership compass. So do the work to discover what your leadership compass is and share it with others and be true to that. So leaders consistently said, I need to be more self-aware to lead authentically. And for us, authenticism in leadership is knowing what your leadership compass is. So it's your anchor, which is your purpose, and your values, which is your lighthouse. So now emotional intelligence isn't about being nice, and hopefully we've really been able to articulate that today, but it's about knowing yourself so you can lead with clarity, and that's exactly where we start in the course. And so if you are interested in this course, we'll have the link to the course in the show notes. And if you are a listener and you would like to try it, we're gonna give you a discount code called EI20. So you get a 20% discount if you enroll in the course, just with that code. Okay, Katie, why don't you wrap us up?

Katie: 30:37

Wonderful. Okay, well, yeah, that's a wrap on episode one of season six. Uh, we hope you enjoyed learning a bit more about emotional intelligence. Again, it's not just a soft skill about being nice, it's really about being intentional, aware, and effective. Again, that's if you're leading formally, informally, uh, if you're at work and just in your personal relationships. And it's the foundation that we're gonna build on, like we said, for the rest of this season of Tackle Tuesday. And so next episode, I'll give you a little teaser. We're going to be talking about leading when it's hard, emotional intelligence and high stress moments. So if that interests you, be sure to tune in and give it a listen. And we look forward to tackling the next topic with you next time. Thank you. Bye, everyone. Bye.