Special Segment Taco Tuesday: Ep. 8 Authentic Leadership

SUMMARY
As more women enter the workforce and into formal leadership positions, we find ourselves searching for a way to lead that is authentic to our true selves. 

Authentic means to live your life according to the needs of our inner being, rather than the demands placed on us by someone else. Your authentic approach to leading yourself and others has to align with your passion and purpose. 

In my interview my interview with Emily Lopez, Global Head of Talent Strategy and Development at ConocoPhillips, she shares her career journey and the discoveries she made along the way in regards to embracing her strengths and using them to help others, inside and outside her organization.

LINKS
The Emotionally Intelligent Leader Online Course
Discout Code: tackletuesday10

CONTACT INFO
Dr. Johanna Pagonis
Emily Lopez contact information

Sinogap Solutions Leadership Consulting
We help you achieve your company's mission by maximizing the human potential across your workforce.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Johanna  0:02  
My name is Johanna Pagonis, and welcome to tackle Tuesday. This is our second episode in our special segment series, Taco Tuesday, taco Tuesdays devoted to highlighting women in business and their efforts and achievements in creating inclusive and equitable societies. As more women enter the workforce and into formal leadership positions, we find ourselves searching for a way to lead that is authentic to our true selves. 

Authentic means to live your life according to the needs of your inner being, rather than the demands placed on you by someone else. woman cannot subscribe to someone else's vision, ideals or philosophy of leadership. It is about figuring out how you define leadership and how to embody the characteristics of a leader you would be proud to follow your authentic approach to leading yourself and others has to align with your passion and purpose. In my interview today with Emily Lopez, who was the Global Head of talent, strategy and development at ConocoPhillips, a fortune 100 company, Emily shares her career journey and the discoveries she made along the way in regards to embracing her strengths, and using them to help others inside and outside her organization. 

Emily is a leader who has a strong understanding of what her passions are, and how they align with her purpose in life. She's clear on her values and uses them to guide her behaviours every day. She believes in the power of role modelling and paying it forward. In Emily's current role with ConocoPhillips. She focuses on partnering with leaders at all levels, including C suite executives to define and drive the company's people strategy. Her span of responsibility includes leadership of executive level succession planning,

Johanna  1:59  
professional development, leadership development, performance management, diversity and inclusion and employee feedback strategy. Prior to her current role, Emily held successive positions inside and outside the Human Resources function, including senior leadership roles within compensation and benefits and direct partnership with executives and business unit leaders. Emily earned her bachelor's degree in finance and a master's degree in human resource management, both from Mays Business School at Texas a&m University, Houston based Emily as a longtime member of the Houston Junior League, and serves as an assistant captain for the Houston livestock show, and rodeo merchandise committee. In today's episode, Emily shares an important message that all leaders, women and men alike need to reflect on as they navigate their people and their organizations through today's global market. I'm sure you will enjoy the show.

Johanna  3:02  
Hello, Emily, and welcome to Taco Tuesday.

Johanna 3:04  
Thank you so much for being on the show today. Anyone who's heard any of my episodes will know that I like to begin every show by asking my guests to share their career journey and what led them to where they are today. But as I listened to my guests stories, they, I realized that it's not just about their career journey, but their personal journey as well and how one influences the other. So please just share your history and share your story with our listeners today.

Emily  3:34  
Great, thanks, Johanna. Really nice to be here appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. So I always I've always been really deliberate and thoughtful about my career, I think. But if you were to have asked me 10 years ago, where I'd be today, I'm pretty sure would not have said in the talent management space are leading talent strategy and development. I actually started down the path of being a finance and accounting professional. I just I remember, you know, observing my parents growing up, and neither of which worked in the corporate world. My mom's a nurse practitioner, she works with cancer patients. And my dad, he was in education, and he retired as an assistant superintendent for school district. 

And they worked so hard, and I just remember thinking, you know, I understand why it's hard for them to disconnect or shut down at the end of the day, when that extra 30 minutes or that extra hour that you're not investing equates to, you know, a cancer patient phone call that you didn't return or, you know, a student that was in jeopardy of failing out and trying to work with the parents and trying to work with the teachers to get them back on track. So watching them, you know, and considering this, I decided, Okay, well if I want some kind of work life balance, you know, I'm just going to go work in business because it's going to be easier to set boundaries if I'm leaving behind at the end of the day, you know, spreadsheet.

Some PowerPoints, that'll all be there tomorrow. So it was a pretty logical decision for me growing up in terms of how I approached it and how I was thinking about pursuing a career in business. But what I quickly realize is that, you know, while I enjoy working with numbers, and while I was, while I was good at it, right, that's partly why I gravitated towards finance. I struggled to connect with the deeper purpose for that work. And I realized that it did need to be more than just a job for me, I wanted to feel that deeper calling and that deeper connection. And so I did some research. You know, I met with a college career counselor. And after graduating with a bachelor's in finance, I decided to pursue a master's in HR. And so I started my career as an HR professional and compensation, a pretty good fit, considering kind of my love of numbers, and then my passion for the HR space. And my career and my aptitude for HR really just just grew from there.

Johanna  6:05  
You talked about having a sense of purpose, can you share with us what that purpose was? And how it guided your your journey?

Emily  6:18  
Yeah, absolutely. 

Emily  6:23  
So I think my, my understanding of that has definitely grown over time. And I and I think about it in terms of really being grounded and being clear on what my primary source of motivation is. And I'll say, in the early stages of my career, I really let fear of failure drive me. And while you know, that's part of human nature, and that's a very real, you know, as I've grown, it's become clear to me that, that letting that fear of failure drive you or drive me was, it was unhealthy, right. And it was potentially destructive, when I think about kind of that long term source of motivation. And so I've spent a lot of time reflecting on what is my deeper source of motivation, and getting beyond even the short term motivators like that next promotion or the next job opportunity. And for me, what I found is that it's really rooted in my spirituality. So I believe that, you know, I've been given that we've all been given, you know, unique talents and unique skills. And my motivation comes down to maximizing and leveraging those talents to make the greatest possible impact and contribution. You know, I think women in particular, spend a lot of time focusing on what skills and talents we lack, and comparing ourselves to others, you know, so if only I were more creative, you know, that I'd be more successful, for example. And I'm definitely not discounting learning from others, or self development in new areas, you know, those things are important. But making sure that I'm not spending a disproportionate amount of my time focusing on what I lack versus focusing on the strengths and the capabilities that I've been uniquely given. And being grateful, and being unapologetic about using those gifts to make an impact.

Johanna  8:24  
I like how you say,  be unapologetic for using those gifts. I would even go as far to say that gifts are well, like you said you use the term strengths. Or I would say even superpowers. And for me a superpower is a strength on steroids. It's something that you're good at, and that you need to embrace and not apologize for.

Unknown Speaker  8:44  
So throughout your career and experiences you've accumulated. What strengths did you discover along the way? And how did those strengths align with your purpose?

Emily  8:58  
So, you know, with each from an HR perspective, right, with each move, I was convinced that I wasn't going to like the new area of HR that I was about to embark on as much as as much as the last or be good at it. And I think what I discovered along the way is that, for me, it really isn't about, you know, a love or a strength in compensation and benefits specifically or in talent management specifically, you know, I enjoy those areas. But it's really about accomplishing the broader strategy of the company, using HR to get there. And so that's really what I've been focused on from from a strengths and from a passion perspective is that, you know, I'm most passionate about seeking out where are the biggest challenges and needs for the business at a particular time, and being willing and interested to jump in and to learn new things. And trusting that along the way, I would acquire the right HR expertise that I needed. Yep, along the way to get there.

Johanna 10:02  
Mm hmm. So the fear of failure can driver behaviour sometimes, but you have shifted your mindset, so that the fear of failure doesn't stop you from trying new things and seeking out new challenges, correct?

Emily  10:16  
Absolutely. You know, I think it's about embracing new challenges and, and realizing that it isn't about having all the answers, you know, no one has all the answers. It's about having confidence in your capability and the capability of those around you to get to, you know, a great answer or a great solution that makes sense for the problem that you're trying to solve, and the context that you're in at that particular time.

Johanna  10:42  
So now you're the Global Head of talent, strategy and development of ConocoPhillips. Can you share with us what you do and what your team is responsible for?

Emily  10:53  
So in my current role, I have the pleasure of leading a team that focuses on most of the key areas of talent management, apart from technical training, and talent acquisition. So my team is focused on performance management and executive level succession planning, leadership development, professional development, diversity and inclusion, and then our employee feedback strategy as well.

Johanna  11:25  
What are some of the new learnings you've had about yourself and your strengths since being at ConocoPhillips.

Emily  11:32  
So I definitely think I've become kind of clear, you know, as part of the last four years about what my unique strengths are, and what that deeper source of motivation is. And even kind of earlier in my career, you know, I'll share just looking back that I definitely struggled from, you know, imposter syndrome. I remember actually reading Sheryl Sandberg lean in for the first time and feeling like, she was just literally inside my brain, you know, writing from my perspective, and she talks about in her book about worrying that, you know, you'll be found out that you aren't qualified, you know, that you don't have the skills that it takes to excel in your job. And it's only a matter of time before someone kind of realizes that, right. And that directly connects to the comments I made before around that, that fear of failure. And I just remember vividly feeling that way early in my career. And it was such a relief, reading her book, and realizing that I wasn't alone in those thoughts. And that, you know, that wasn't unique to me. And so, spending more time really getting clear about who I am as a leader, who I am as an HR professional, and really thinking about that unique impact and that contribution I can make. And as a result of doing that, you know, growing over the past four years, you know, expanding my team, expanding the number of significant and strategic efforts that my team was working on, you know, during that time, to make a really solid impact for, for the business. And so starting really with a pretty narrow focus on the leadership development side. And then quickly, you know, moving beyond that to explore, you know, those other areas that I mentioned, performance management, professional development, our employee feedback strategy, more broadly,

Unknown Speaker  13:41  
I like how you're integrating all the important elements of leadership. It's not just about focusing on leadership skills. But the true role of a leader, like you said, performance management, giving feedback, succession planning, all needs to be integrated. So that's great that you're doing that. I want, I want for a moment to just go back to the comment you made about Sheryl Sandberg and her book that you read, and how she talked about imposter syndrome. And that it was refreshing for you to read that because you realized what you were feeling? Was it unique to just you,

Unknown Speaker  14:17  
why do you think women

Unknown Speaker  14:18  
struggle with imposter syndrome?

Unknown Speaker  14:21  
Sure, I think, you know, it's hard for me to assume why, you know, what the struggle is for others. You know, I will say, you know, one of the things again, kind of going back to that deeper sense of motivation is that staying focused on you know, that that primary source of motivation for me, which is is rooted in the spirituality and acknowledging my, my skills and my talents, not as things that that I created on my own, but as guests that were given to me, that kind of gets me past, you know, this concern that well, if I You know, advocate on behalf of myself, I'm going to be viewed as arrogant. 

Or if I go out and pursue this opportunity, you know, I'm going to be, you know, perceived as arrogant, or overly confident in my capability. Those things may be true, but my driver is not that, you know, I, I think I'm so great. You know, my driver is, you know, I've been given these these capabilities for a reason, and who am I to, you know, suppress those who am I to, you know, not take advantage of the unique skills and capabilities that I've been given. and hoping that that sets an example for others as well, you know, to get beyond, you know, this fear that somehow the perception is going to be that they're overly confident, or that there's a gap between what they think they're capable of doing and what others think that they're capable of doing. 

Johanna  15:55  
And like how you said, it's a gift, and you need to share those gifts with others, and in doing so, you support other people achieve success, develop new skills, and confidence, correct?

Emily  16:08  
Absolutely. And I think, particularly, you know, females, I know, in my, in my experience, sometimes we we view things as, you know, either or, right, like, you can't be confident and humble, you know, you can't be you know, and and the reality is, that's not true, you know, you can't, you can't be grateful, and, you know, ambitious or, and want more, and you can, you can absolutely be grateful. And, you know, you can pursue greater desires, you know, greater aspirations, and you can be confident, and you can also be humble and be committed to lifelong learning and development as well. And so thinking about it in terms of the and statement, and realizing that it doesn't have to be an all or nothing.

Johanna  16:57  
Very true. So being a woman working at ConocoPhillips, which is oil and gas industry, which is typically in traditionally a male dominated industry, how did you have these breakthroughs, shift in mindsets, and embracing and appreciating your strengths and supporting others to do the same in an industry that typically or stereotypically, embraces or supports a male traditional approach to leadership?

Emily  17:30  
So I figured this question would be coming. And as I was reflecting on this, over the last few days, just preparing for our conversation going into, I mean, I knew I could sit here and share with you some of the challenging situations that I've encountered, you know, there's been lots of times that I've been the only female in the room, which didn't necessarily equate to a negative experience, but, you know, it can definitely be intimidating, you know, particularly as I think about kind of the, the earlier, you know, stages of my career and those really kind of formidable years. And, you know, there have been some more blatant, you know, examples of kind of negative experiences along the way as well. 

And I know that there are so many women who have shared similar stories and far worse than, than any that I have, with with much more damaging repercussions. But as I reflected on our conversation, I wanted to take the discussion in a slightly different direction and just share something that I've been contemplating, more recently, both as a female leader but but also as an HR leader responsible for for developing others and, and professionals around the world. And that's, you know, the mix of masculine and feminine energy in the corporate world, and the importance that gets placed on those characteristics, as it relates to how we define success, and how we define leadership. In my experience, you know, undoubtedly, more importance has been placed on the characteristics reflective of masculine energy versus versus feminine energy. 

And as I think about this, for me, personally, you know, I know that this has shaped what I've paid attention to, and what I focused on from a development standpoint throughout my career. So I'll give you an example. Just to provide a little bit more insight into Okay, what do I mean when I say masculine versus feminine energy? And how does this play out? Or at least how have I seen, you know, this play out in my experience? So, for example, you know, approaching problem statements with with logic with analytics, with decisive action, those are all characteristics of masculine energy and the characteristics that, again, in my experience, you know, historically have been most commonly focused on and rewarded in business. I work with engineers I work with geoscientists, right, so it makes sense that those are the characteristics that are are gravitated towards On the other hand, you know, things like collaboration and intuition and creativity, which all reflect more of that feminine energy. 

Those haven't been focused on or rewarded to the same extent. And so over time, you you know, the impact of this has, the impact that it's had for me is that we get conditioned to build and develop that masculine energy and to downplay the feminine energy. So I realize, you know, I do think in general that how we define performance and how we define good leadership has come a long way. And so we're placing a lot more emphasis now than we than we did 10 years ago on things like emotional intelligence or vulnerability or empathy. But I think, you know, when you have a balance of both, that's when you can make the greatest impact and greatest contribution. So, so for me, I've been thinking a lot about this and reflecting on ways that I've suppressed my feminine energy over the years. And how do I reverse that and get to a place where I'm striking the right balance for myself. And I'm valuing and applying my strengths across the board and not just those that are in line with that masculine energy, that the world around me is promoting more. Absolutely.

Word from Sponsor  21:18  
Hey, everyone. Johanna here with a quick word from our sponsor. This episode is sponsored by Sinogap Solutions, the emotionally intelligent leader. Leaders are not born, they are made. strong leaders are aware of their strengths and limitations, they can create a culture where candid and compassionate conversations occur daily. And we're sharing feedback is not only encouraged, but expected. That is why I developed the online program, the emotionally intelligent leader. The program's mission is to transform individuals into emotionally intelligent leaders who achieve excellence for their teams and their organization. Through the program, you will explore your purpose for leading others discover areas of strength and growth, that you'll be able to leverage to support your leadership development throughout your career. And as a listener, you will receive a 10% discount, when you use the code tackletuesday 10, you can access the link and discount code in the show notes.

Johanna  22:27  
It's about emotional intelligence. I know Typically, what I have read and heard others say is that motional intelligence tends to be associated with a female quality or characteristic or way of leading, and even just send the art and who is the prime minister in New Zealand, I saw her give an interview, I think it was to BBC, when she talked about how being in politics, she felt as though there was pressure for her to lead in a traditional masculine way. And you articulated what that is. And she used very similar characteristics. But she said she didn't want to embrace that side, she wanted to lead through vulnerability, and compassion, which is all aligned to emotional intelligence. So you talked about how you had to fight against suppressing that feminine energy? How did you finally embrace it? And how do you encourage other leaders to embrace it as well.

Emily  23:24  
So for me personally, one of the things that I've found is, you know, maintaining perspective that the world is bigger than the current job that you're in, or the company that you're in, or the industry that you work for. So, so keeping that pulse on the outside world, which I think not only helps you as a professional, but it adds value to your current organization, as well as reading articles, connecting with professionals outside of your immediate company and your immediate industry, and really thinking about how do I be the best professional and my line of work? And what does that mean broadly, and not just, you know, the best HR professional at a particular company? You know, I read an advice in an article once that said, Don't put your job ahead of your career. And, clearly, you've got to be successful, right and in jobs and your series of jobs to have a successful career. 

But the message that I took from that was, don't focus so much on the short term or on your immediate context, that you lose sight of that broader context. So if you spend so much time narrowly focused on one particular company's definition of performance or of success, then you run the risk of ignoring that broader view of what success and top performance means. And I think maintaining that perspective, you know, helps me stay centered around, you know, while I may, you know, be encouraged or, you know, perceive subtle messages throughout my day to day around. What's valued? You know, can I take a second to consider the bigger picture? You know, particularly as I think about people that have chosen a completely different, you know, path in life, and learn from that and integrate that into how I manage my day to day and in this context. So I think maintaining that bigger picture has been one of the things that is helping me most as it relates to helping others, I think, first and foremost, you know, as a, as a leader, being a role model. 

So I've got to get comfortable with what are the ways that I can show up each and every day that promotes that message. And that demonstrates that message to others? And so before I can even think about how do I have broader impact and programs that, you know, I lead or design, you know, it's got to start with those day to day interactions and that role modelling piece. And, you know, I've been given an awesome opportunity from, from the scope of my jobs and think about, okay, now, how do we infuse that messaging and that encouragement to leaders across the board and professionals across the board. Now, I'm fortunate to work at an organization that really focuses on culture, as a key driver of performance. We're very rooted in values, and very focused on one of the things culturally that are important to us. And so having the opportunity to integrate that messaging, you know, across the full scale of talent management processes and programs, you know, to talk about the value of balanced leadership to talk about, you know, it's not just getting results, but it's also, you know, demonstrating empathy. It's also, you know, making sure that you're connecting and demonstrating trust, and focusing on, you know, the workforce as human beings versus dehumanizing the workforce solely to think about the accomplishments piece and trusting that through those efforts, that the results and the success will come.

Johanna 27:09  
How many leaders do you support or provide services to in regards to leadership development? In cCnocoPhillips?

Emily  27:15  
We have roughly 2000 leaders across the organization.

Johanna  27:21  
That's International, correct? Yes.

Emily  27:23  
Uh, huh. globally. Okay.

Johanna  27:24  
So, you know, you talked about role modelling, and I think that is very powerful. It sets the tone of what your expectations are of others, our staff watches closely, and we relay multiple message messages to them every day of what is acceptable behaviour, and what is not through our own actions. So how are the leaders, the 2000 leaders that you're supporting globally? How are they responding to this approach in leading others?

Emily  27:54  
No, I, I believe that people wake up in the morning, and, you know, they don't wake up with this point of view of, you know, I want to, you know, push people off today or do something that, you know, is perceived as is not demonstrating support, or empathy for the other individual. So, I think, in general, you know, people want to be good leaders, right, they want to do the right things, they want to get the the results and the business accomplished, but they want to do the right things in terms of leading and engaging others along the way. 

You know, I think the challenge that we have is, and when I say we, I mean, just broadly, you know, as leaders, I think, you know, it can be difficult to reconcile, you know, leadership is complex, you know, if it wasn't, then, you know, I probably wouldn't have a career and, you know, helping kind of lead and guide organizations. So, you know, it is complex, and, and we're dealing with human beings here, right. 

And so, it's not one size fits all. And I think, I think that's what's challenging is, you know, there's a lot of great research and a lot of great work out there that, you know, conveys simplistic messages, like, you know, follow these three tips or follow these five steps. And while I definitely applaud and see value in, you know, being able to digest those things and take what is a complex topic and break it down, you know, I think sometimes, you know, it does kind of undermine the, you know, the overall message, which is, it's messy, and it's hard. And sometimes I think, you know, leaders step into supervisor roles for the first time, you know, with this view that, you know, they're going to be good at it. And I think that's a really unrealistic expectation. You know, I think that, you know, it does take time to reconcile, you know, how do you develop the management skills, how do you develop the leadership skills, and then how to You become clear about what your personal leadership, you know, proposition is, right. 

So the things that I value most, and the things that I'm good at, aren't the same as my colleague down the hall. And that's okay. You know, again, not that, you know, that's permission not to, you know, develop or learn from others, certainly you want to do that, but it's okay for me to be clear about who I am. And then unique value that I bring to the leadership space. And, and to own that. And for me, it's about, you know, challenging myself and challenging others to be the absolute best that they can be. And that's not always comfortable. And it's not always easy from either side, from my side, or the individuals that that work for me. 

But I care more about helping them realize their potential to move the business forward than I do about the short term concerns of, you know, providing uncomfortable feedback, or challenging them maybe to go beyond kind of where they previously saw themselves. And so it's how do you partner with those individuals, to help them get the absolute most out of their career that they want, while at the same time contributing, you know, to the full extent possible to the business? 

Johanna  31:27  
Yeah, I agree with what you're saying, I tell individuals that being a leader is tough. And what will help sustain you over challenging moments, is knowing what your purpose is. In leading others, it isn't easy to give feedback to others when it isn't glowing. But it's your job to ensure that you're giving those individuals on your team, the skills and the knowledge they need to excel. And sometimes that means giving them honest feedback, that's critical. So knowing why you want to be a leader in the first place can sustain you through those difficult times, and actually even drive your behaviour and encourage you to have those challenging conversations. And I think that's also the role of being a supportive and good mentor. Mentors are not only there to support us, when we do well, and excel, but they're there to support us when we don't do so well, too. Which means that they, they need to guide us and let us know where we're good at what we're good at, but where we need, where there's opportunities for us to grow. And really, that's the message that I hear you relaying?

Emily  32:38  
Absolutely, and and, you know, it's not easy to be on the receiving end of, you know, constructive feedback, you know, we've all been there. It's not, it's not easy. You know, I know, for me, personally, I am very thoughtful about that I take time to process, you know, I do take it, I internalize it, you know, and and really spend time with it and think through, you know, what's the value from this? 

And how do I, how do I apply it going forward. So I know that I know that that's not easy. But I also know that the people that have cared most about me over the course of my career, cared enough to set aside their personal discomfort and having the conversation to challenge me and to highlight those areas where I could be doing things differently, or doing things better. And so staying focused on that, and, and using that, along with, you know, kind of putting the person first and using that along with my, you know, leadership proposition and what is it that I want to bring to the table consistently, that's really been an internal compass for me to get over some of that those short term concerns or, you know, the, the, you know, maybe more momentary situations where you're, you're just want to avoid the conversation, right? So do I have to have this discussion? 

And, you know, really getting beyond that to say, What am I doing to help that individual if I don't have the discussion? I'm not, you know, and so that's my role as a leader. And that's way more important than me spending, you know, 10 minutes uncomfortable or concerned or anxious about how the person's going to perceive that V neck.

Johanna  34:19  
Mm hmm. Well said. Now, I also believe that in order to give honest and critical feedback, you have to make an unintentional effort to develop relationships with the people on your team, your colleagues, your peers, even your supervisors, because sometimes you have to brief up and give your boss some feedback. So you know, trusting relationships, like you said, when you treat your employees like human beings, it goes a long way to develop a trusting relationship with others, it becomes a lot easier to give feedback if they know that you're a compassionate individual that cares for them and wants them to be successful. They're more open to hearing your feedback, right I, I call or I've heard it referred to as care and candour, if someone knows you care about them, then they're more receptive to hearing your feedback. Otherwise, you're just an asshole with an opinion.

Johanna  35:18  
That doesn't, and it doesn't mean much to them. So I think it's important that if, you know, in order to feel even more comfortable as a supervisor, to give feedback to your employees, and to others, make that intentional effort to get to know them, and, and develop a relationship with them.

Emily  35:37  
Absolutely. And I think it goes back to you, you know, some of the comments that I'd shared with you previously about, you know, thinking beyond kind of the either or, you know, and getting back to the and, and reflecting on the fact that, I love what you said about caring candour, you know, you can be empathetic and kind and hold people accountable. It's not an either or, and that's where I know, you know, my personal leadership experience, I've grown a lot, you know, over the eight years that I've been been leading individuals is really thinking about, you know, that's complex. So how do you make that happen? How does that show up? You know, on every day of the week, or in every interaction? No, how do you demonstrate both of those things at the same time, and really working on that and reconciling it and refining it. And it is possible, but it does take a lot of thoughtful and hard work.

Johanna  36:34  
As we draw closer to the end of our conversation, I'd like to ask you, if you have some last thoughts, or words of insight or inspiration that you'd like to share with our listeners.

Emily  36:48  
So I think beyond, you know, I've shared a little bit just around kind of hard work and motivation and embracing new challenges. Now, I do want to say that I, you know, benefited greatly from from mentors and advocates, you know, particularly in the early part of my career, you know, I was given jobs that I never would have asked for directly or believed I could even do, you know, and, you know, others saw my hard work, and they saw my strengths. And they advocated for me in ways that I didn't have the confidence or the capability at the time to do for myself. And so I'm so grateful for that, you know, and I realized how important that was, and those early formidable years in terms of shaping my career path and shaping, you know, my own confidence and my and my capability. And so being grateful for that. And then thinking about how do I pay that forward? So I, you know, talked a little bit about role modelling, but above and beyond that, you know, how do I be more intentional Mo, more proactive about helping others, you know, being more vocal about what I've learned along the way. And that's not to say that anyone else's, you know, career path or journey will look the same as mine, or should, but if there's anything that I can do that makes a difference for someone else, you know, encourages them to take a risk that they've been contemplating, or spend time being more thoughtful about who they are as a leader. You know, that's what that's what counts. So, you're really thinking about how do I be intentional? And how do I pay that forward?

Johanna  38:28  
Great. So what's in store for Emily Lopez, what's, what's next for you?

Emily  38:34  
So I'm, I'd say, what's next for me is continuing to heed a lot of my own, you know, advice, but I talked through, you know, in this session, I'm trying to focus on, you know, building my expertise and building my impact, you know, as an HR professional, outside of, you know, just the work that I'm doing on a day to day within, you know, my current company. So I've gotten to kind of a next step in my career where, again, I'm focusing on how do I give back and one of the things that I certainly can do is, you know, give back to those that are around me, you know, those that I work with on a day to day basis, that's probably the easiest way to do it. But then how do I challenge myself to go beyond that to say, again, maintaining that perspective of the broader world, you know, and maintaining that perspective of being a really strong, you know, business leader and HR professional, even outside of my current context, you know, focusing on building that focusing on building more connections externally, building that impact externally, and hopefully helping helping others along the way.

Johanna 39:50  
When you talk about the importance of paying it forward and helping others I clearly hear your purpose in that message and it really aligns well with that. What you're currently doing in your role, and what your future aspirations are. So if somebody would like to connect with you and engage with you in a conversation on this topic, how do how do they find you? I assume you're on social media.

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